Succession Plan?

MichaelQ

One of the biggest risks in adopting a closed-source tool is the risk that the vendor will involuntarily cease operations or be bought by a competitor who will shut it down. This has happened many times and it leaves developers high and dry. Not only do they lose access to the tool that they have based their livelihoods on, but the potential consequential losses of their clients who run their businesses on it can be enormous.

I'm not sure of the size of the Aware IM team. Is there a team or is it a one man band?
If its just Vladimir:
Firstly congratulations to him on producing such a tour de force all on his own.
Secondly, what measures have been taken to ensure that licence keys can be generated in his absence? (for example if he falls under a bus).

Some information regarding a succession plan would be most helpful, such as for example:
"The Aware IM team consists of n staff, n of whom are trained in License Key generation & management. Master keys are held in escrow by xx and will be released to our staff within n days in the event of Vladimir's incapacitation."

This would provide some comfort that, even if the product were no longer being developed, at least developed systems could continue to be sold and current installations could continue to be expanded or moved to different servers etc.

Thanks,

Michael

BenHayat

Subscribed!

weblike

Me too.

kklosson

And for your customers... do you have one?

MichaelQ

No.
I have one product, but it is not copy protected. Customers can restore from backups at any time.

Markfre1

This has been brought up as an issue before. And it is a critical concern in that the developer's livelihood depends on it, but more importantly, so do our customers. On my C/S I have customers doing 1000 invoices a week, receivables, history, etc. and if they could not operate, it would be catastrophic. If AIM crashes and needs to be reinstalled, it requires a new key as the old doesn't work. This issue has held me back from offering SaaS apps as well as intranet apps from the very beginning in working with AIM.

Someone asked a good question about our apps. In my situation, if license #'s could not be issued due to death, incapacitation or whatever, we have envelopes pre-stuffed and addressed with instructions that include unlimited license #'s for our users. So they will always be able to operate and not have to rely on us for an annual license.

So AwareIm support did issue a statement that something was in place, although it was brief and did not alleviate our concerns. Hopefully, something can be figured out, or put in place to make us confident that there is a succession plan and we and our customers are not at risk of basically being shut down unexpectedly. It would also make us more comfortable moving forward with products we have developed but are afraid to pursue sales. It's a big issue for us.

Mark F.

aware_support

First of all the issue does not depend on the size of the team - any company can get out of business with some consequences for the existing customers.

What we can say on the issue is this:

If you have the license you can continue using this license irrespective of whether Awaresoft exists or not. If Awaresoft goes out of business your license will not stop working.
The entire code of Aware IM including license generation algorithm can be put in escrow. In an unlikely event that we go out of business you will have access to the code and will be able to generate license codes yourself (with some legal limitations, of course). There are costs involved and if you decide to go down this path you will have to pay them. An escrow company handling this will have to be an Australian company (where Awaresoft is registered) and the process will have to be governed by the Australian laws.
We do not intend to go out of business any time soon and our financial position is stable - we have no debts, liabilities, lawsuits against us etc.

Markfre1

Yes, I agree any company can go out of business and that is not my concern as in the software industry companies are sold, products replaced with the buying companies products, etc. Some of the software I run which may have been discontinued, or the company or product is gone typically have a license key which is static. So if the computer crashes, even if the company is not around, we just reinstall the original program and re-enter the original license #.

The issue with AIM is that if the system crashes and AIM needs to be reinstalled even on the same computer, the original license key does not work anymore. That is the main issue. As a side note, in an intranet environment, which is not my main focus, our users are always (in our C/S app) upgrading servers and we need to reinstall.

Now I understand AIM wants to protect users from installing the program on unlicensed computers so this protections was built in. The way most companies are now handling this is through online activation. For example, we use Pervasive SQL and we receive and activation code, and we use this code to activate online. This activation code remains the same. It checks their server to see if it was activated already and if not, it activates the system. . The only issue we run into with PSQL is that if the system crashes, there is no way to deactivate the license so we can reactivate it on a different computer. In that case, we send an email to Pervasive asking to release the key on their activation server. They allow you to do it x times.

This is food for thought and I think it is probably difficult for AIM to implement a licensing server based on what I know. Best product in the world though, and life is full of uncertainties, and some of the last comments by support alleviates the concerns regarding this as there are options.

Mark F.

aware_support

The issue with AIM is that if the system crashes and AIM needs to be reinstalled even on the same computer, the original license key does not work anymore.

Only if MAC address of the computer changes as well. The crash of the system shouldn't require a new license if you have backup of your database.

The way most companies are now handling this is through online activation

Online activation will make your license dependent on the Aware IM Server. If Awaresoft goes out of business and its server goes down, your license will stop working. You don't have this problem with the current method we are using.

customaware

While it is not entirely the same issue,

I used the same product for 25 years. While they have not (surprisingly) gone out of business, they treatment of their developer customer base has been poor.
The only thing that kept many developers there was, it was a great product.
Responsiveness to was slow and requests for features basically ignored. ie. We asked for simple charting for 25 years and it still is not in the product.
So, the company decides to head off on a different tangent and basically forcing all their developers to have the need to understand .Net .

So, for many developers, including myself, that was effectively the product being thrown under the bus... (the Company had been there for some time 😉 )

So, there are no certainties and NO guarantees for anything.

But for my money, Awaresoft has demonstrated a level of support for their Developer Base, a bug response time and discipline in feature addition that I have never seen before.

Instead of discovering Aware IM 4 years ago, I could well have decided to learn some other technology to add to the stack. We all know about those. They in and out of favour with monotonous regularity.

I don't wanna keep having to learn something new. I just want to build robust apps that work and keep on working.

Unlike my last tool.... with Aware I was able to build a great business solution, implement it in the cloud, have 500 odd people using it from all over the globe and unless I want to upgrade it.... doesn't cost me a cracker apart from modest monthly AWS fee and I NEVER need to touch it..... it has been humming away for 3 years now and has not missed a beat.

Given that Awaresoft are cognisant of the issue raised and have provided some assurances for those who really have an issue with it.... I don't see any greater risk than most other development tools.

Think of all the "hot product" database development tools over the last 30 years and tell me which ones are still around now. I don't just mean the DB like MS-SQL, MySQL, Oracle etc. I mean a Development Environment Tool.

Aware IM has turned 10 and still going strong and in fact, better than ever.

weblike

I have to admit that these kind of replies gives me confidence - for existing licenses

but the post I presume complies more for new licenses....

Thx,

johntalbott

aware_support wrote

The issue with AIM is that if the system crashes and AIM needs to be reinstalled even on the same computer, the original license key does not work anymore.

Only if MAC address of the computer changes as well. The crash of the system shouldn't require a new license if you have backup of your database.

The way most companies are now handling this is through online activation

With cloud based VM's, MAC addresses can/will change for a variety of reasons that we have no control over.

Since there is no concern of AwareSoft going out of business, what is the concern with online activation or some other self-service model? Wouldn't it be a good thing to provide your customers more flexibility and alleviate their concerns?

Most importantly ... rather than digging your heels in, why not consider a different approach to address these valid concerns brought up by your customers?

BenHayat

johntalbott wrote
Most importantly ... rather than digging your heels in, why not consider a different approach to address these valid concerns brought up by your customers?

Since 2010 that I joined this forum and in every occasion that I had a contact with an Aware developer, this issue has come up (What if Vlad is no longer accessible and we have no way to get NEW licenses. Nothing in place as of now). In fact I was talking to one of the older customer of Aware yesterday morning, BEFORE Michael posted this thread, and the customer raised the exact concern, what if Vlad is not there anymore.

By ignoring this important and valid concern of developers, two thing has happened and will happen more:
a) Developers will seek other products and leave Aware. Customer base shrinking.
b) And I'm absolutely certain many NEW prospect will not buy Aware, because there is no system in place to generate new license keys. Verbal assurance does not work when dealing with companies. They want to see it working in action.

No one is condemning Awaresoft for producing great product and responding to bugs. The product is great. The man behind it is awesome and capable. We all agree on this. Aware is so much more superior than Magic.
But what many people, including our new addition Micheal are concern about, is having a system in place that is governed and controlled by another entity outside of Awaresoft that will produce License keys. It really shouldn't cost that much for an independent company to produce keys.
Let's just stay focus on the key issue and not divert to so many other things that don't exist. A reliable and independent system to give license keys and this will alleviate lots of worries and bring new customers.

Nothing can match Aware, so why have something hanging that blocks people to buy in? Let's fix this.

MichaelQ

Sorry to have caused a bit of a fuss...hell I'm not even a paying customer yet! 🙂

I don't want to labour the point but:

Yesterday I was telling a friend of mine (a much more experienced independent developer than I) that I had come across what looks like an excellent development tool. His first question was "how do they generate keys if their founder disappears?" He refuses to consider and won't recommend any software to his corporate clients without some detailed assurances in place. He understandably takes this hard-nosed view because of past traumas. In fact he prefers open source software for this very reason. The encouraging fact that AIM is based on open source foundations is offset by the opaque provisions for long term security regarding AIM itself.

Consider if you were managing director of a small company (say $5m/month, 200 staff, 100 product lines, 10,000 customers) and you are commissioning some costly mission critical custom software. You would insist on being sure that it can run it (no matter what) for many years. If not, you would be derelict in your duty because the potential loss of access to the system could irreparably damage your business.

If you were careless and didn't act responsibly and then there was a problem, you would have to commission development of a parallel new system which might incurr high costs and might take many months to bring into service, never mind data migration costs etc. This process might not be completable before the old system was no longer operational (for whatever screwball reason). Then your downtime could be costing you say $50k/day. If you couldn't deliver to your customers, your business may be dead in a few weeks never mind possible litigation from customers because of breach of contract etc.

It's understandably a pain for AIM to address these matters, but satisfactory provisions would surely help with future adoption and sales and would remove one more reason not to buy.

Just trying to help all involved.

Michael

BenHayat

MichaelQ wrote
Sorry to have caused a bit of a fuss...hell I'm not even a paying customer yet! 🙂
Michael

In fact Michael, we want you, your friend and many others to become confident paying customers and become part of this community. This discussion isn't about bashing Aware or Awaresoft. It's simply to point out the loopholes and gaps that may prevent from new customers and/or existing customers with FUTURE license generations. This way you and your friend can confidently buy now and if you need more licenses for load balancing or redundancy system or new installations, you can always get it from an independent source, even if Awaresoft is not around.

As Vlad pointed out, your CURRENT Aware development and CURRENT license are not affected which we know, but we are concern for future licenses, that is the main issue. For example, to add new Aware server to a load balancing structure, you will need new license key.

Markfre1

Ben and Michael have excellent points. I looked 10 years for a web development tool to replace Magic and when I found AIM it was, shall we say 'Magical', again.

Most of my business is C/S in Magic at this time and I was worried what would happen to the customers with getting their annual license numbers to continue to use the product if I was gone. This issue hanged over my head as these businesses and their employees count on my app to run their businesses.

What I did was a couple of things. I got an inexpensive Amazon server, with the licensing program on it and gave access to one of my developers. So if something happened they could login in issue the license. Also, I said they can have the business and pay 1/2 the recurring revenue to my family for x years.

Also, I previously mentioned since our license #'s are static, we have stuffed envelopes which 70 year license numbers enclosed with instructions just in case the other party is unavailable. So the users can run forever. This is a problem for AIM in that the license code changes each time it is installed even on the same computer.

Maybe AIM could do something as simple as this. Set up a AWS server which basically cost nothing if you are not using it, have the licensing program on it, and then have either a small committee of developer/s who would receive access to the server in the case of an emergency. The access information can be held in escrow, along with an agreement to provide any income generated to the AIM corporation.

So basically, all AIM has to do; Set up Server, put licensing on it, have instructions, put the AWS login to a lawyer, and say who would have access to it and under what condition. AIM could just state simply that 'License information is held in escrow and is available in case of xxxxx or whatever). I think that would alleviate the concerns of everyone.

Mark F.

MichaelQ

" Awaresoft has demonstrated a level of support for their Developer Base, a bug response time and discipline in feature addition that I have never seen before."

This is avery good sign. This quote should be on Awesomesoft's marketing materials, particularly the bit about discipline in feature addition. This indicates a technical maturity which is quite rare.

aware_support

Let me emphasize again - there IS a path for customers to mitigate the risk of license keys generation as explained in my previous response. This path is an escrow agreement with Awaresoft. I am not sure I understand why this explanation is ignored in the subsequent replies.

It is a very common practice and is already used by some of Aware IM customers. If some of you don't know how it works here is a rough explanation:

There is a third party company (escrow company) that manages the relationship between Awaresoft and a particular customer. It is a well known and reputable company
A legal agreement is setup between the 3 parties. The bottom line is that Awaresoft puts the entire code of Aware IM and relevant documentation on a CD or other media. This CD is then given to the escrow company for secure storage in its safe. The legal agreement defines the circumstances when a customer gains access to this code. The most common one is if Awaresoft goes out of business
If Awaresoft goes out of business the escrow company sends the code with the relevant documentation to the customer. The customer can then generate his own keys and even make changes to Aware IM (but obviously the legal agreement prevents him from distributing the code or selling Aware IM as if it was his own)
The escrow company makes sure that Awaresoft keep sending the latest version of their code to them for secure storage, so that there is always an up-to-date version (this is usually part of the agreement).

Everything is organized by the escrow company. Awaresoft deals with the escrow company. All that the customer has to do is pay legal costs to Awaresoft (usually 2 or 3 thousand dollars). Awaresoft pays large part of this fee to the escrow company.

So 2 or 3 thousand dollars buys you complete peace of mind in a very unlikely event of us going out of business.

BenHayat

Support, IF a customer wants to buy the Key Generator app TODAY and not the source code of AwareIM and be able to generate his OWN keys from this point on (Whether AwareSoft is in business or not) or perhaps a Server that does not require any key at all that we always get the latest copy and won't require a key, how much would that be?

This way, we buy an unlimited server that we can use for multiple installations or load balancing and etc. Many companies offer such servers.

However, I've never, ever heard that customers pay the legal fees to vendor to setup an escrow account for vendor's business. In over 30 years being in software business, this is the first time I hear that.

aware_support

Support, *IF* a customer wants to buy the Key Generator app TODAY and not the source code of AwareIM and be able to generate his OWN keys from this point on (Whether AwareSoft is in business or not) or perhaps a Server that does not require any key at all that we always get the latest copy and won't require a key, how much would that be?

You cannot "buy" a key generator app. The only way for you to get access to key generation algorithm is through an escrow agreement.