I am conflicted re: HTML and Aware

BLOMASKY

I don't have to tell the choir here how good Aware is for those who are not SQL or Javascript experts. Aware does all of the heavy lifting. And if you are a SQL guru, well no problems, you can easily call and use Stored Procedures. You don't NEED to know how to spell CSS to get (sort of) good looking UIs. Sort of the best of all words

BUT

(and you just KNEW there would be a but!)

Now, if you want to use HTML, then the world is not so pretty. If you want to use HTML for the caption of a form, you have about 1" for your code. (Yea, you can write it somewhere else, then copy and paste. but you have NO way to see what you wrote.).

If there is any HTML error, you get NO clue, till your heading / caption / field does not display. So, if you forget a " or a >> or ??? you don't get any error msg, it just ignores your bad code.

One of the huge plus's, is Aware's speed of development. If I was still entering developer competitions, I would have NO problem using Aware, unless, that is, I wanted to add some HTML to my app, then its worse than coding HTML in Notepad!

Perhaps, if enough other developers have a use for HTML in their solution, then the Aware developers can and will address this issue. Perhaps!

Bruce

BenHayat

There are women who are not the best looking or perhaps the sexiest woman around, but man they can cook the best food and take care of home and all the things a household needs. When you come home, you may not see the prettiest wife, but you know your belly will be happy and everything in house taken care of.

Then you have women who look hot, pretty and sexy, but damn they can do crap in the kitchen or take care of the home and etc. When you come home, you're greeted by a pretty wife, but there is no dinner, nothing in fridge and you have to do it all yourself.

In my world, I rather to have the first choice... AwareIM
You want a pretty wife, go with JS, CSS, HTML, Angular, Knockout and tons of other tools for client, and you haven't even started the middle tier (ORM) and backend server and etc.
Just Imagine how much work you have to do, just to have a sexy looking UI...

Just my two cents!

BLOMASKY

Ben,

I want Sexy and a damn good dinner.

I came to aware from Sencha and am NOT looking back. Aware is so much better, BUT, to use your analogy, can we have the wife who cooks REAL good get a boob job?

(Wait, did I say that out loud)

Aware does allow adding HTML and CSS in a LOT of places. This is GOOD! It would not be, should not be, too hard to add an editor (or better still, interface with an existing editor) to make life easier for us.

So, what IS the wife cooking for dinner tonight?

Bruce

BenHayat

I think for "Business" application, Aware does an excellent job AS IS. You can design real clean and functional UI for a controlled environment, where you have users using the system every day. Prettiness is second to UX and a good UX comes from experience and understanding the domain and the user's workflow.

Remember Lotus 1-2-3? How popular it got and how fast people were using it with a single color and single font? It was all how Lotus created that new hierarchy Function key menu system, that only took one row and you could find any functions in that app in one row, and 80 column.
It was all in the UX design that Louts 1-2-3 won.

I spent a great deal, on designing the best UX for each form and how the user can be the most productive.

crisg0112

BLOMASKY wrote
Ben,

I want Sexy and a damn good dinner.

I came to aware from Sencha and am NOT looking back. Aware is so much better, BUT, to use your analogy, can we have the wife who cooks REAL good get a boob job?

Bruce

+1. :lol: :lol:

I think part of the future of aware would be to upgrade / enhance the IDE

hpl123

I agree with the stuff discussed int this post, Aware AS IS is great BUT the stuff Bruce writes about is something I have thought about many times. The ideal scenario is a great platform that can be used as is for most scenarios and then if needed and for more advanced developers, more options are available. Html editor is one, ability to write html/code in business rules (not possible today, you can´t use " for example in a rule etc. etc.), maybe ability to run scripts from business rules etc..

In v7, we did get more options and more control in this area (new html options, ability to add buttons, autorefresh on content panels etc.) and I hope Awaresoft also continue down this path in future versions and also adds small tools like the things discussed in this post and again the goal shouldn´t be to change Aware so coding is required to be able to create apps but rather something that can be used for advanced scenarios if/when needed.

BenHayat

Aware is an interesting product, because it's a huge product (I don't want to be in Vlad's shoos). It's like several products in one.

It's a very powerful data model builder that handles all the database plumbing.
It has a great ORM that works perfectly between data model and application.
It has a powerful Rule based engine.
It has a Workflow Process engine.
It has a full IDE to build application.
It has an application server to serve your app.
It works with Internet server.
It has powerful Email system.
It has reporting.
It has a server side HTML/CSS/JS generator.
It has built in support for the entire Kendo UI library.
And the list goes on and on.

And as a developer who always want new things, and when I put that list in front me, sometimes I get overwhelmed, which one of those areas take precedence of the others? Where should AwareSoft add new features?

And after one year of intense usage of Aware, I have developed a special respect for the creator of this product and trust his direction. He knows I still speak my mind on what we need, but at the end of the day, I've become humbled to let him do what's best for Aware...

Just me humble opinion and don't mean to disagree with anyone...

aware_support

Improving HTML editing capabilities is high on our priority list for the next version.

tford

And after one year of intense usage of Aware, I have developed a special respect for the creator of this product and trust his direction. He knows I still speak my mind on what we need, but at the end of the day, I've become humbled to let him do what's best for Aware...

Ditto 1000x

pureist

Ben Wrote: "Where should AwareSoft add new features?"
Let's just start by considering some additional 'settings', as opposed to full-blown 'features', which could be added to the existing Aware which would tremendously enhance the end-user's (of the finished application) user experience, by facilitating creation of much more flexible finished applications, by giving the configurer more control over the end user's interaction and user experience.
Refine/optimize/perfect what you've got first, then go to to the next level in terms of additional features, is my opinion.
Settings are undoubtedly simpler to add than full-blown new 'features'. There are so many obvious settings which could be added, it is truly overwhelming when you contemplate how simple it would be to greatly enhance existing Aware further, and take it to the next level of application development.
Such as, for instance:
When output is directed to a New Tab, there should be an '...' options dialog (like when output is directed to a Modeless window), containing the following seltings:
a. don't switch to new tab [immediately following opening]
b. MARGINS/padding
c. open new tab after current tab (ie. not always end of all tabs)
c. (alternative) new tab offset from current tab (- and + values could be used to open the new tab, eg. 3 or -2 tabs offset from current tab)
d. open new tab at beginning of tabs ('c. alternative' could render this unnecessary)
e. new tab label
f. new tab icon
g. new tab badge
h. new tab is not closeable
.
and, the tabset should have a dropdown button at the end of the tabrow which when clicked displays a list of tabs open, and the user can select one to switch to it, rather than having to scroll the tabrow horizontally to find the tab they want to switch to and click it, as demonstrated in the following when the number of tabs exceeds the width of the tab component (you need to add them):
http://www.smartclient.com/#tabsAddAndRemove
.
there are soooo many simple settings which could be added to take existing Aware to another level without even adding full-blown new features.

weblike

pureist wrote
When output is directed to a New Tab, there should be an '...' options dialog (like when output is directed to a Modeless window), containing the following seltings:

Great Idea. This has to be refined indeed.

kenlyle

That last by pureist does seem like a nice enhancement.

BLOMASKY

Would be nice to be able to give a tab a NAME (or ID) and then a function to close it. So many of my programs have output in NEW TAB and then I have about a zillion (more or less) tabs open. How hard would it be to have a CLOSE TAB "tabname" function?

I would even pay 25 cents for that...

bruce

BenHayat

BLOMASKY wrote
Would be nice to be able to give a tab a NAME (or ID) and then a function to close it. So many of my programs have output in NEW TAB and then I have about a zillion (more or less) tabs open. How hard would it be to have a CLOSE TAB "tabname" function?

bruce

There IS already a Tab Name in Aware. That's "Section's Name". What we need, are OPENSECTION (Name) and CLOSESECTION (Name), actions for process.

BenHayat

BenHayat wrote
BLOMASKY wrote
Would be nice to be able to give a tab a NAME (or ID) and then a function to close it. So many of my programs have output in NEW TAB and then I have about a zillion (more or less) tabs open. How hard would it be to have a CLOSE TAB "tabname" function?

bruce

There IS already a Tab Name in Aware. That's "Section's Name". What we need, are OPENSECTION (Name) and CLOSESECTION (Name), actions for process.

Forgot to add, in case of VP, there is a Tab ID, but no Name.

pureist

Having pondered it further, I think my original suggestion (pasted in italics at the bottom to keep all pertinent info in 1 post to save others the time in having to trawl the thread to get up to speed) is incomplete.
As well as those settings which come into effect when a user's interaction triggers a new tab to be opened, there should also be a couple of Actions added in order to control dynamically at runtime via the application, the user's experience in interacting with tabs, such as:
OPEN TAB ; CLOSE TAB; and, SELECT TAB (to give it the focus/switch to it)
OPEN TAB would need settings to follow inline.
And a luxury would be MOVE TAB which would reorder tabs as should already be possible for the user to do, but isn't.
These Actions should be able to be executed like any other Action is in a rule/process.
.
"When output is directed to a New Tab, there should be an '...' options dialog (like when output is directed to a Modeless window), containing the following seltings:
a. don't switch to new tab [immediately following opening]
b. MARGINS/padding
c. open new tab after current tab (ie. not always end of all tabs)
c. (alternative) new tab offset from current tab (- and + values could be used to open the new tab, eg. 3 or -2 tabs offset from current tab)
d. open new tab at beginning of tabs ('c. alternative' could render this unnecessary)
e. new tab label
f. new tab icon
g. new tab badge
h. new tab is not closeable
and, the tabset should have a dropdown button at the end of the tabrow which when clicked displays a list of tabs open, and the user can select one to switch to it, rather than having to scroll the tabrow horizontally to find the tab they want to switch to and click it, as demonstrated in the following when the number of tabs exceeds the width of the tab component (you need to add them):
http://www.smartclient.com/#tabsAddAndRemove"

baskosi

BLOMASKY wrote
I would even pay 25 cents for that...

For each time the function is called I assume?

BenHayat

baskosi wrote
BLOMASKY wrote
I would even pay 25 cents for that...

For each time the function is called I assume?

Isn't that crazy, that there are actually development products out there who charge you based on API calls, like a meter...

pureist

BLOMASKY wrote
Would be nice to be able to give a tab a NAME (or ID) and then a function to close it. So many of my programs have output in NEW TAB and then I have about a zillion (more or less) tabs open. How hard would it be to have a CLOSE TAB "tabname" function?
I would even pay 25 cents for that...
bruce

.
If you really would be prepared to contribute something towards getting some relatively straight forward SETTINGS and ACTIONS added, Bruce, then you should state as much in the topic I opened recently to gauge appetite among users for precisely this (user sponsored enhancements).
IF enough people chip in even $20 to a 'wish' enhancement, then perhaps Support might do it .
Following is the topic:
"Anyone4 User Sponsored SETTINGS? NOT full blown new features?"
https://forum.awareim.com/d/8472>
Please make a post if you are indeed genuine about possibly contributing, along with other users, towards the cost of relatively straight forward enhancements (proposed enhancements would be described and debated/evolved in separate individual topics) which would significantly improve your applications.

BLOMASKY

The simple answer is of course I would be happy to contribute to anything that:

1) Saves me time (like better HTML integration), since I bill my time, so thats easy to justify
2) Anything that makes me (ok, not me, but my solutions) look better.

However, if the development team is listening (VLAD???) I would certainly pay for an aware "UPGRADE" with these features. Compared to many other tools out there, Aware is between cheap and dirt cheap!

Wait, thats me, looking cheap, according to the Mrs. Never mind.

Bruce