#0 potential new functionalities (to maybe suggest) [intro]

pureist

I am new to this forum. Personally, I would like to see the future evolution of AIM be geared as much towards it generating 'retail consumer end-user facing' applications which deliver a slick elegant non-disjointed seamless refined User Experience to the punter, as it does business applications where the end-user base is locked-in/captive (where its core strength presently lays), where such 'higher' User Experience is not absolutely critical.
No retail consumer end-user has any time, patience or attention span these days, and it's getting worse.
If you can't "hook 'em" in the first 15 seconds you've lost them, they've swum off into the deep blue.
Thus, a 'Single Page' dynamically/database driven 'online store' User Experience (ie. time efficient) has to be the eCommerce way of the future, if maximizing conversion rate is the objective.
The typical '50 page reload' online shopping session almost always encountered has to be restricting sales these days.
The novelty of shopping online has warn off. No one wants to wait for the page to reload 50 times anymore.
Retail consumers want to get back to chatting on WhatsApp, watching YouTube videos, surfing porn, or back to work before their boss catches them. No one has any time whatsoever anymore.
So why make the retail consumer spend/endure any more time shopping online to buy from your store than they absolutely have to? Why not give them what they want?
Thus, I think the 'retail consumer' end-user application developer base is AIM's big opportunity for expansion/growth in the future, because it can simplify 95% of the Javascript/CSS BS.
Why should I have to know Javascript to be able to develop such an application?
I SHOULDN'T!! I should just be able to configure (not code) it, as though I've instructed the conductor on which movements to conduct the band to play in which order so as to ultimately recite the whole piece (desired application).
I think AIM is 85%-90% there now, and can see the potential for it to easily reach 95%+.
However, I think it needs a handful of additional settings/functionalities to be incorporated in order to spare the configurer/developer having to resort to Javascript/CSS in order to deliver the slick elegant non-disjointed seamless refined User Experience to the 'fish'.
Thus, the purpose of Posts which follow this (#0) Post (which will have this same Subject) is to canvass for/gauge how much interest/support there is in/for a particular setting/functionality among the forum user base.
If the level of support/interest is strong then I will formally suggest the setting/functionality in the appropriate thread as well as to 'Support', along with mention of how strong the level of support/interest was among the forum user base.
AND.. perhaps my suggestion for a new setting/functionality will be improved/evolved/refined via topic replies? Perhaps my idea for how it should work won't be the optimum?
I think this could be a good way of presenting a well thought through idea to 'Support' which could assist them in implementing the setting/functionality exactly the way users would like, if they choose to take it on board.
I won't post a lot of 'headless chicken' new topics. Rather, I will consolidate multiple new settings/functionalities ideas (individually numbered) into a once a week new topic post.
If you've made it to here, Congratulations!! you're not one of the 'fish' without patience or attention span. 😃 :mrgreen:

Powerm

I have been able to read you post until the end 🙂 As a Mac user I have always liked RAD tools like AwareIm and specially Xojo ( check http://www.xojo.com ) Check there Lightspeed POS app.

BenHayat

Not that there is anything wrong with your suggestion or vision, but let's say when you see a car manufacture that has a car that is geared to do commercial use rather than personal use, and there is a demand for personal use, the manufacture isn't simply going to make a few changes to turn a "Commercial" application car into "personal" application car. It's not a sound direction, because although both are considered as "transportation" segment, but they vary differently.

Similarly, Aware (from my point of view) is more like a "commercial" grade transportation vehicle that a sexy sport car, and even though it has 85% of a sport car components, but it's design and purpose isn't for sport car. As much as it may seem to...

For example when you look at Jeep brand for years, they have stayed with what "Jeep" was designed to do and Jeep didn't make it into a sport car. And I look at Aware more like a "Jeep" than a Nissan GT-R, that does what it's supposed to.

BLOMASKY

Ben, forget the damn Jeep! Go with a Tesla, or a Porsche!

But, back to development, I "Think" I am hearing that he wants to sell the sizzle, not the steak. Yes, Aware makes a nice steak, but there are too few UI options to put the "Sizzle" on the steak. For many customers, and many Proof of Concepts, you do have to "WOW" the user. The good news is that Aware does not need to add much to be able to add the Sizzle. It need things like:

better message boxes
easier way to build classy looking forms without writing a lot of HTML or Javascript or ???
More user accessible classes / styles that we can easily customize using CSS
More flexibility in the grid and form and menu layout. (bottom line, all applications are a combination of these

I would write more, but its time for more tequia.... Take care all. be safe..

Bruce

pureist

Well, Ben, I think AIM can easily be a Transformer (as in Megan Fox bending over the bonnet of the car).
Although my suggestions will focus on improving End-User Experience, where that end-user is a retail consumer with the attention span of a Monkey with ADHD and on Speed, I'm sure many of them will be useful for your purposes/ from your point of view.
Your example does not hold. What about BMW, Audi and VW?
They have all 'transformed' relatively recently from being sedan/hatch manufacturers, to also becoming successful 4WD and Commercial vehicle manufacturers, and it hasn't been at the expense of quality of their finished products in any domain.
And isn't Volvo, as well as being a successful passenger vehicle manufacturer, also one of the largest truck and commercial vehicle manufacturers in the world? I think they also make those giant dump trucks used in mining too.
There's nothing wrong with diversification, if done well. And if done well, it can lead to often much needed innovation.
Having perused the forum for some time, I can bet you that there are certain users ('BLOMASKY' (Bruce) for one) for whom my suggestions will be music to their ears.

BenHayat

I'm NOT disputing your logic. Yes, most of successful car manufactures have diversification and that is the best solution to "Multiple" products for different needs. Volvo makes Sedan, SUV and trucks. Fully granted, but I was saying that you won't see a Volvo sedan turns into a Sedan/SUV/Truck. Each will be a different product.

The Current state of Aware is somewhat like an SUV, but for Awaresoft to have a sexy sport car, they have to create a new platform for that market to stay competitive. A modified SUV won't sell as a sexy sport car. 😃
Whether Awarsoft will build another product to grab ende user's attention, that's something Support needs to answer.

pureist

AIM is not anything. It's not an SUV or Porsche.
Its like a stem-cell than can almost differentiate into any different type of cell/application depending on what nutrients/settings are introduced.
Presently, the type of applications it generates (very well) are SUV's (in your analogy).
Volvo SUV's, Sedan's, and Truck's are just different applications, all produced by the one development platform (Volvo).
Who said anything about a new AIM product being needed for it to also generate slick retail consumer applications?
I didn't suggest anything of the sort. It would not be worth my time proposing something so outlandish.
If you re-read my email you will note that I am only talking about suggesting an additional handful of settings/functionalities which could be incorporated in the [existing] configuration tool, so that it is capable of generating applications which have a more elegant and refined User Experience than is presently possible, such that those applications are suitable for use in environments where the end user is a retail consumer.

BenHayat

pureist wrote
If you re-read my email you will note that I am only talking about suggesting an additional handful of settings/functionalities which could be incorporated in the [existing] configuration tool, so that it is capable of generating applications which have a more elegant and refined User Experience than is presently possible, such that those applications are suitable for use in environments where the end user is a retail consumer.

It's interesting that my points almost "sounded" as if I was negating your POV. But it wasn't...
Before the release of V7 beta, I had the exact conversation with Support regarding being able to create more elegant application and Support's reply was "V7 has more room for developers to adopt CSS/HTML/JS".

Although I still find it difficult and unfriendly to produce such elegant apps even with V7, but I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Powerm

BLOMASKY wrote
Ben, forget the damn Jeep! Go with a Tesla, or a Porsche!
I would write more, but its time for more tequia.... Take care all. be safe..

Bruce

Forget Tesla/Porsche, go Bugatti to WOW !

weblike

BenHayat wrote
pureist wrote
If you re-read my email you will note that I am only talking about suggesting an additional handful of settings/functionalities which could be incorporated in the [existing] configuration tool, so that it is capable of generating applications which have a more elegant and refined User Experience than is presently possible, such that those applications are suitable for use in environments where the end user is a retail consumer.

It's interesting that my points almost "sounded" as if I was negating your POV. But it wasn't...
Before the release of V7 beta, I had the exact conversation with Support regarding being able to create more elegant application and Support's reply was "V7 has more room for developers to adopt CSS/HTML/JS".

Although I still find it difficult and unfriendly to produce such elegant apps even with V7, but I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Indeed, v7 has more freedom for developers to implement CSS/HTML/JS. In my opinion v7 is a game changer .

In terms of your earlier reply (cars).
AwareIM V6 was fuel based (gasoline). V7 is a hybrid (semi-electric). 7.0 It's the first version with other 100% new UI.
You guys, which are getting to the conference in this February (So sorry I will not be there), please ask Vlad what is the roadmap with V7. Will be fully electric, like Tesla? 🙂

cheers,

pureist

Just to clarify, Ben and Bruce..
I'm not going to be making technical suggestions in relation to, JS, HTML, CSS or Classes.
I don't wanna know about that aspect. So, Bruce, your suggestion:
"More user accessible classes / styles that we can easily customize using CSS"
..does not even figure on my radar.
I'm not interested. I shouldn't have to be interested.
Only if I want that last 1% bespoke/unique functionality, THEN I should need to be interested in/concerned with these technical aspects.
I'm just talking about a couple of handfuls of additional settings (checkboxes, drop-downs, etc.) in the existing configuration tool, which when enabled will implement functionalities in a developed application which give it the 'sizzle' which Bruce refers to, in terms of end-user experience.
I agree with you, Bruce, that AIM doesn't need much added to get it there.

BenHayat

weblike wrote
please ask Vlad what is the roadmap with V7. Will be fully electric, like Tesla? 🙂

cheers,

George, have you seen any Russian Electric car yet? :mrgreen:

tford

I'm just talking about a couple of handfuls of additional settings (checkboxes, drop-downs, etc.) in the existing configuration tool, which when enabled will implement functionalities in a developed application which give it the 'sizzle' which Bruce refers to, in terms of end-user experience.

The great thing about the users on this forum over the years is that they post about specifics & do so succinctly. If you have specific suggestions, let's hear them. Succinctly please. 😃

pureist

oh no! a 'fish'?
you should read my first intro post all the way through, and you will know that your reply is premature.

tford wrote
I'm just talking about a couple of handfuls of additional settings (checkboxes, drop-downs, etc.) in the existing configuration tool, which when enabled will implement functionalities in a developed application which give it the 'sizzle' which Bruce refers to, in terms of end-user experience.

The great thing about the users on this forum over the years is that they post about specifics & do so succinctly. If you have specific suggestions, let's hear them. Succinctly please. 😃

johntalbott

pureist wrote
Just to clarify, Ben and Bruce..
I'm not going to be making technical suggestions in relation to, JS, HTML, CSS or Classes.
I don't wanna know about that aspect. So, Bruce, your suggestion:
"More user accessible classes / styles that we can easily customize using CSS"
..does not even figure on my radar.
I'm not interested. I shouldn't have to be interested.
Only if I want that last 1% bespoke/unique functionality, THEN I should need to be interested in/concerned with these technical aspects.
I'm just talking about a couple of handfuls of additional settings (checkboxes, drop-downs, etc.) in the existing configuration tool, which when enabled will implement functionalities in a developed application which give it the 'sizzle' which Bruce refers to, in terms of end-user experience.
I agree with you, Bruce, that AIM doesn't need much added to get it there.

I think Bruce has it right ... we need specific tutorials/examples on how to manipulate the client side JS, HTML, CSS using best practices. That is the ONLY way we'll be able to get the flexibility we need.

While it would be great for the config tool to be able to manage every last thing, it's impossible to have the config tool be able to keep up.

Beyond that I'd really like to see how to use AwareIM as a complete headless platform .. ideally accessible as a REST services ... so that it can easily accommodate a completely decoupled UI.

BLOMASKY

Unless Aware adds about 100000 zillion (more or less) properties, so that you can customize the sizzle to look your way, Pretty sure you will have to know and use some CSS and perhaps even a tad about of JS. For example, lets take something really simple.

You would like a form to look "better". Now, not sure how you would define better, but it might be a combination of:
DropShadow
Contrasting border color
Title bar in a diff. color, font
buttons with CURVY corners
etc. etc. et.

Yes, if the development team gives up sleep for a few months, they could have a HUGE checklist of properties that
we can just check, but I since I have to know Aware to write a sophisticated app, I have no problems using other tools as long as they dont take TOO much time or effort

Bruce

aware_support

Some of the suggestions in the original post will be implemented in the next (post 7.0) release.

However, if you think that Aware IM or any other RAD tool can fully replace the capabilities available in the CSS and HTML technology then you are dreaming. Aware IM gives you a platform with which you can create web applications with unprecedented speed and with a very decent look and feel. If you want state-of-the-art look and feel, though, then you have to get your hands "dirty" and learn some HTML and CSS. Just saying "I don't have to" is understandable, but seems too emotional. Think pragmatically of the time and cost savings of developing STATE-OF-THE-ART application - using Aware IM with some CSS/HTML additions vs using .NET, for example, or hiring a team of professional developers to do this.

There is not that much to learn in CSS/HTML. One would argue that it's not that different from learning Aware IM. Javascript is a different story - there IS a lot to learn. But just using CSS/HTML without any Javascript will get you a long way to creating state-of-the-art applications. By the way, the tutorial for using CSS/HTML in Aware IM is coming.

Having said that, we WILL be adding more features from CSS/HTML to Aware IM in the nearest future - just don't expect that we can have them all.

BenHayat

aware_support wrote
Some of the suggestions...

Thank you Support for your post and a hint of what's coming up.

pureist

Hi Bruce.
With the exception of Title Bar in a different colour, in my view, those other aspects (DropShadow, Curvy Buttons, etc.), should remain in the 5% of 'non-mainstream'/rare customizations which would not be in AIM as settings, but instead require CSS/HTML knowledge. I'm interested more in functionality, than aesthetics.

BLOMASKY wrote
Unless Aware adds about 100000 zillion (more or less) properties, so that you can customize the sizzle to look your way, Pretty sure you will have to know and use some CSS and perhaps even a tad about of JS. For example, lets take something really simple.
You would like a form to look "better". Now, not sure how you would define better, but it might be a combination of:
DropShadow
Contrasting border color
Title bar in a diff. color, font
buttons with CURVY corners
etc. etc. et.

Yes, if the development team gives up sleep for a few months, they could have a HUGE checklist of properties that
we can just check, but I since I have to know Aware to write a sophisticated app, I have no problems using other tools as long as they dont take TOO much time or effort

Bruce

pureist

aware_support wrote
Some of the suggestions in the original post will be implemented in the next (post 7.0) release.
However, if you think that Aware IM or any other RAD tool can fully replace the capabilities available in the CSS and HTML technology then you are dreaming. <<cropped>>

No, I don't think it can or should fully replace. But I think it can be 95% instead of it's present 85 verging on 90%.
And, it will be the 80/20 rule, where 20%/a small number of my suggestions being incorporated as settings in the config tool will get it 80% of the way there (to 95%).
Anyway. I'll post my first tranche of suggestions on Friday.