Ipad2 and ios5 improvements

rocketman

Delighted to report that IOS5 and the updated Safari browser has brought significant improvements to the performance of AwareIm on iPad2

Testing so far. Query lists now scroll, the keyboard now pops up when inputting/editing HTML attributes, page load is lightning fast - faster than my laptop.

Still issues surrounding resizing (two fingered pinch/ expand gesture. But apps are now workable with care

Testing continues. Will update as and when

Support - can we have a new section specifically for tablets? Members, please add a comment if you agree we need a new section on the forum

ACDC

I think a separate section may be a good idea, although i don't see much in the forum by way of mobile apps.

By the way, has anyone had any luck in getting AwareIm to run on BlackBerry, because as far as i am concerned it does not run at all

rocketman

Maybe it's just me but I don't believe in mobile apps. My goal is to get my main apps to work in the iPad safari browser with full functionality. Not interested in phones but I do see tablets as the future with many on the road sales forces using them as the device of choice. My guess - two years

RocketRod

I am finding that mobile apps do have a place for the foreseeable future. I have one customer with 50 reps using a mobile app across 250 stores quite successfully. So I hope the development is this area continues.

Cheers Rod

RLJB

We're only just starting our mobile apps journey with the Aware module. We were basically "forced" to do it by existing clients demanding it (we tried to ignore it for a while).

From our experience tablets/mobile are such a growing force from our user base that this new interface will be incredibly important, and that tablets are sufficiently different that they require their own user interface.

Please keep developing this Aware. It would be especially nice to get the Calender working on mobile interface.

Thanks

ps - why are there so many "Rods" in the Aware community!

RocketRod

Calendars would be great and don't forget taking and uploading pictures which hopefully now is not too far away. Is it still on track support as you said back in August it would be approx 3 months away?

Cheers Rod

PS Isn't Rod a great name!

rocketman

Rocket 'ain't bad either

rocketman

Should have added, NOT using the Aware mobile extensions. This is all standard AwareIM interface stuff. See my later post on testing menus. Also, calendars work fine on iPad.

Haven't got an iPhone 4s so cannot test - but I'm looking forward to the day when my members can talk to my app 8-)

Sent from my iPad

nlarson

rocketman wrote
Maybe it's just me but I don't believe in mobile apps. My goal is to get my main apps to work in the iPad safari browser with full functionality. Not interested in phones but I do see tablets as the future with many on the road sales forces using them as the device of choice. My guess - two years

QTF - could not agree more: mobile apps are a gap solution. I am working to get my entire sales pitch to and demo to work from an ipad. I can already do it now using Citrix., but that's also a stop gap. My most annoying moments on my ipad are going to sites like netflix and twitter and then being forced onto a dumbed down interface when my browser can fully handle the real thing. For the moment, flash seems to be the big limitation for ipads.

I did purchase Aware Mobile, but for me that is targeted at phones, not pads.

RLJB

Rocketman... after a lot of trial and error with the Aware Mobile option we have also decided NOT to use it and are instead using a different VP for tablet users (accessed via a different login page).

This is going pretty well BUT there is one thing I don't like that I am hoping you may have solved (?). Some of the items just look "bad" on an iPad... for example:

fields get rounded on the iPad but on drop down fields the selector box remains square
buttons look bad (the border is half finished around the top)
tabs on forms also have bad borders

Have you had any success in fixing these items?

Tks

rocketman

On Holiday at the moment Rod. Back on 5th March

rocketman

Hi Rod, sorry to say had no luck with these items. For me, they don't look too bad so I'm accepting them as a trade off for functionality I'm getting on the iPad.

Will be going to the Apple store after March 16th to see if I can get my hands on the new iPad with retina display for half an hour to see how they look.

I suspect the problem lies within iPad version of Safari or the Sencha style sheets. Either way it seems "beyond our control"

Has anyone tried Safari on a PC - how do things look?

rocketman

Personal opinion,

If AwareIM wants to stay out in front - they have GOT to exert some pressure on the Sencha people to get their stuff right for all tablets.

If we are not yet in the post PC era - we are DEFINITELY in or approaching the post laptop era.

Would love to hear other people's opinions - I have been known to be wrong on occasions 8-)

RLJB

Well I have to admin we have done a 180 degree flip on this (since the Feb 21 post) and have embraced the AwareIM mobile version with full force.

Took a while for us to get our heads around - it's very different and it takes a lot of learning to do things differently BUT I think the mobile version is fantastic. A few things that swung us back to mobile:

a) we did some (non technical) testing and I think Aware mobile is faster on a mobile device (tablet/phone) than running the desktop version - shoot me down if I'm wrong

b) we did a lot of research on iPads/css/Sencha touch/exjts 3 (currently used by Aware)/exjts 4 (maybe going to be used by Aware?) - a lot of the ugliness of the CSS relates to Safari (and other browsers on tablets - we tested with about 7 of them). I don't think it will be fixed anytime soon - Sencha is embracing and pushing Touch for tablet use. And I agree - it feels "native"

c) we mucked around with CCS to try and make it more finger friendly and I don't think you will ever get it truely finger friendly - keeping in mind that you are using the same CCS as your desktop - so you have to be careful how far you push this approach. If you go mobile option, it's a different CSS and you can play around with things much more.

d) Aware mobile option IS really good, some tips:

use lots of custom queries
experiment with your button placement (button at top only works well I think)
don't use form captions (buttons will run over them, and they "stick" where they shouldn't)
don't just replicate your desktop app menu, rethink it. In fact don't just try and replicate your desktop app - rethink it. We have stuff in the mobile app that you can't do in the desktop version - which is nice.
customise the Sencha Touch template to match your desktop colours - you can make it look great.

My belief is that users feel like they are getting something extra for free here. Rather than struggling with zoom / two finger scroll / and hit tiny buttons they a whole new custom built interface. And when you learn it you can use it really fast - it's nice. Give it go.

RocketRod

Hey hey...I agree... Welcome to the fold!

Cheers Rod

rocketman

The killer for me (actually my app) was that I couldn't get dynamic drop downs with "fetch dynamically as user types" to work - and using "fetch all at once" took forever. The resulting list was very jerky when scrolling.

When creating a flight record for a two seater flight, the flight Marshall keys in part of a surname which then refines the selection from about 150 pilot members. (twice). When using "fetch all at once" The second instance didn't seem to want to work at all. If you loaded P1, the P2 list wouldn't load.

..... But I'll have another play, maybe I missed something. In the meantime, any ideas for an alternative way of working would be gratefully received

nlarson

rocketman wrote
Personal opinion,

If AwareIM wants to stay out in front - they have GOT to exert some pressure on the Sencha people to get their stuff right for all tablets.

Sencha can't seem to do anything right for a long time now; devs have abandoned the EXT platfom in large numbers, it's just a hot mess... I think this is far beyond the Aware teams control. At Satuit, the choice ot go with EXT (and ultimate abandon it) cost us many months and many dollars, so I really I feel for the Aware team having spent so much time and effort trying to get that square peg into a round hole. I know they have been trying to move to the EXT4 framework for a while, but it might never work out- that sucks for them and for us.

As to staying out in front, from a strategic stand point, I would be far more worried about the the new wave of PaaS tool than mobile options. PaaS typically targets the Aware core business, and the good ones (like Podio) render the Mobile/ vs. Tethered argument totally null by because the UI is designed to naively support all tablets.

Even if you still focus on mobile vs. tethered, that discussion is just one piece of the picture: My #1 concern is the user experience; mind you I am not talking about the admin tools (which I feel are excellent), but my end users are telling me the user experience leaves a lot to be desired (they were much more blunt). I'm working very hard to change what I can, but I feel hamstrung at every turn. When I compare the UI experience to other JS based UI's, then I can't find a good defense...

As I have worked to Launch VerseGoal, I have been very surprised at how fast the Business-to-business market has adopted the 'app store' buying experience, and how little users are willing to deal with dated interface design consepts. Businesses want instant value and Individuals want a simple, highly consumable user experience... Aware is a very effective Engineers toolkit, and does many things very well but I think a higher focus on improving the framework which drives our ability to deliver a sexier user experience would definitely be beneficial. In more focus on designing for users, not for engineers.

For some examples of where the ‘expected’ user experience is moving towards check out - Asana, Sonar6, Podio, Basecamp or Jira, all are ahead of the curve.

nlarson

P.S. I was not trying to discount your frustration Rocket, nor am I ducking the fact that I could have done a better job with the tools I have; just hoping to add some extra perspective.

ACDC

Hi nlarson,
that's an interesting perspective you present, I wasn't aware devs were abandoning Sencha in large numbers. What is the alternative and where are they are going ?

As far as the UI examples referenced, I think the Sencha UI attempts to imitate the look and feel of corporate desktop applications as opposed to a dynamic webpage / social layout seen in the sites you reference. Whether that's a good idea or not I don't know... probably depends on your target market

I must admit sometimes I have wished AIM had more of a free flow type UI where one could customizes the UI to get closer to the more fashionable look and feel of some of the platforms out there

But having said that, with the current offerings in AIM I am still able to provide a functional and and simple layout that users can understand.The look and feel is probably different, but not dated.

nlarson

There are a number of alternatives to Sencha, some examples are Telerik, Dhtmlx, YUI, Kendo, and many more: These tend to be more of a toolkit used to fill a more targeted UI gap where as EXTJS more of a framework you must work within. The only true EXT 1-to-1 I am aware of is Smart Client by isometric.

To your point ACDC, layout/look are of course part of User Experience, but it's not the only part, my focus is mostly on other areas. IMHO to say ahead in the future (the original topic) emphasis should be placed on the tools which drive the end user experiences.