Backup from within Aware apps

technopak

Hi all,

Can anyone advise me on how best to implement a database backup strategy from within an application developed in Aware, using the default Derby database.

I've read the posts saying you've only got to backup the DATA directory, but I'd be glad of any suggestions on how to do this neatly from within the running application.

Peter

aware_support

You shouldn't do it from within the application. You need to do it at night when noone is using the system and just backup the DATA directory. You should advise your customers to do it like that as well.

technopak

Thanks support.

Is it possible to use Derby's online backup facility SYSCS_UTIL.SYSCS_BACKUP_DATABASE to perform a backup from within Aware developed applications, or will Aware prevent it ?

I would prefer the application to handle the backup in a managed fashion (possibly in a schedule, or by offer to the user at logout) rather than depend on external software over which a developed application would have no control.

Any suggestions ?

Peter

aware_support

It's not a good idea to do this from within the application - you are asking for trouble. There may be open transactions, connections etc during the automatic update and this may screw up the backup and the application itself. Derby is not as robust in this respect as, for example, SQL Server.

Any system requires maintenance - there should be a system administrator responsible for backup, restore, change of servers, server maintenance etc.

technopak

My issue is that I will most likely be selling a stand-alone product installed on just one machine to many organisations, with small numbers employed and almost certainly no IT staff at all.

So essentially, the backup has to be either automatic while the software is running, or initiated by a user when reminded by the system. I can't predict what time of day the system will be offline, and even if I could, there's a good chance that the machine the application is installed on will be shut down when not in use.

So there are factors beyond my control which I was hoping Aware could cope with. If I've got to use software external to the system to provide a backup service, it adds another possibility for failure, which I can't provide for in my configuration. For example, how can the external software know whether the Aware system is in use or not ? And I surely can't suggest a customer hires a system administrator to use my software 🙂

Thanks for the comments, support, but the inability of Aware to provide a backup facility may be a big problem for the small customers that I'm hoping to sell your runtime licences, and so, may be constraining the market to which Aware will appeal as a development tool.

aware_support

You should provide very clear instructions to your customers how to perform system backup - it is not a rocket science to backup a directory. If your users can turn on the computer and start the application they can surely copy the directory.

Anyway, you want to do it from within the application - feel free. Aware IM does not preclude you from using any Derby stored procedure.

technopak

Thanks support,

Sounds a bit like 'try it and see', so I will, and I'll post any success or otherwise.

Peter

rocketman

Hi Peter,

If I could add my two pennies worth as a newbie developer - and I hope this doesn't sound too patronising - it isn't meant to.

1) No company is so small they can't afford a cheapo box stuck in the corner somewhere acting as a server. My developement box cost me less than £250 to build (about USD 500 at today's exchange USD 375 a year ago ('🙁') The box doesn't have to be running expensive server software like Ms server 2003 to actually BE a server. AwareIm takes care of all that.

2) Why stick with Derby - MySQL (Community edition) is free and is tons better. So for around USD 350 - 500 extra you can give your customers complete peace of mind and not let them have to worry about backups. With MySQL Admin (again free) you can schedule the backups at some god forsaken time in the early hours of the morning. Heck, if your customers pay a little extra to their ISP and get a fixed IP address - you could even use MySQLAdmin remotely and offer a remote offsite backup facility - even if they don't go for a fixed IP, , they could always register a new domain name and have someone like DynDNS point to it

So with a box in the corner linked to the outside world and backups taking place silently unattended, your customer is free to roam the planet - see customers go on holiday - whatever - and still have access to his/her app.

And with a box running the app 24/7 think of the possibilities that gives you in terms of functionality. Back in the early 90's I was involved as lead programmer on a sales and marketing application called SalesTeam which we developed in 4D. I can teel you I would have killed my own grandmother for the kind of functionality AwareIM brings to the table

1:00am and I'm fast asleep, Aware checks the customers I've not heard from in a few months and sends them a dynamic HTML email complete with embedded images, links, Logos

2:00am and I'm still asleep. Awre checks the cusomers who are on the overdue list and sends them a polite reminder.

3:00am Mysqladmin backs up the entire database - job done

Need I go on.

Seriously - think twice before tying your app up on a stand alone - switch it off at 5pm machine. That's not what AwareIM is about

Mo 🙁 🙁 🙁

technopak

rocketman,

Thanks for the post 🙂

I know that all you say is true and I appreciate the suggestion about using MySQL.

The issue I really have is that I'm using Aware to develop an application which will sell in it's basic form as a standalone application, which will be installed on a laptop for portability in our customer's premises. The laptop may or may not have wireless (or wired connectivity), so a connection to a server box may not be possible. The system will record information from an interview/meeting between my customers and their customers. The laptop then prints off various reports at some time after the meeting.

A network version of the product will also be offered (surprise, surprise 🙂 ) at extra cost of course, and will benefit from centalised backup strategies and other network benefits.

And no surprise, there will also be a web version of the product too.

So, you are 100% right in all you say, but I do have a requirement for a standalone version of my application trying to hit a price point in a sensitive market. And naturally enough, that version must have some backup strategy included.

Hence my dilemma !

For now, I'm going to look into the MySQL option a bit more seriously. Thanks again for the advice.

Peter